Question topic

So.....what are your thoughts on this article?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15127464/?GT1=8618

Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


We might agree or disagree, but to say they can or can't isn't right. There is a reson Freedom of Religion was made the first amendment, its what brought us here to begin with.

Freedom of Religion is freedom to any religion... not just Christians...

Just don't let you kids read the book if you don't like it!

While I do agree with what Brian stated about the 1st admendment, I do want to add that the lady who wants the books banned is certainly exercising her freedom of speech to do so.

I can't agree with the premise that the 1st ad. should allow whatever anyone wants to do, or that we just shouldn't let OUR children read them. If it is wrong then we should say so. Remember prohibition? EW told us to go out and vote agaist it, even if it were on the Sabbath. For us to just stick our heads in the sand to protect eveyones "rights" even though it is against GOD's priciples... it's a sin for us to do that. Does 'Harry Potter' teach witchcraft? I just read an article on what is called "white Witchcraft " which is what the Wiccans practice. They only use their "craft" for the good. So does HP, but you know it's still witchcraft and Saul was killed on the battlefield anlong with his sons for asking a witch to use her "white witchcraft." Any confusion on this, just look up in your concordances the various words used to describe witches. It's interesting that this lady is trying to ban the books, after all isn't that what GOD did too? Although He banned them out of existance!

So I would have to side with the book banner. I can keep my kids from reading them, but I am just as concerned about everyone ele's kids that have access to them.

My 2cents......

Lynelle wrote:

So I would have to side with the book banner. I can keep my kids from reading them, but I am just as concerned about everyone ele's kids that have access to them.

My 2cents......

Additionally - this would portray an example (a positive one) to your children concerning standing up for what you believe in. While we are given the freedom of religion, we are also given freedom of speech, which in turn breeds freedom of thought.

Let's view it from another situation. Say your child's school library contains pornographic material. Do you simply keep quiet, although such material goes against everything you believe in, because the school is functioning under a freedom of speech/information act?

I agree with ya wholeheartedly sweetie.

I'm kinda divided on this one. Hitler carried the moral majority while he imposed strict gun laws (the first ones in an industrialized nation, as a matter of fact) and burned books. The quality of life in Germany was made much better by the Nazi party (as long as you were a white christian), and that's why I think a lot of them followed him into the nightmare that he started later.

So yeah I think that it's wrong to be a witch, or a homosexual, but Jesus loved them and told us we should too. He hung out with the worst of the crap that the Hebrew nation had in those days and while I'm not suggesting we should be doing that, I do think we should be less judgemental of others. There's a lot of Adventists who shun Catholics because of our beliefs about the pope, but I think there will be a lot more open-minded Catholics in heaven then there will be closed-minded Adventists. Shouldn't our outreach be reaching out to those who need it most, like the ones in bad situations that need hope? I mean really, don't we have enough apathetic middle-class people in our church already?

I can't tell or restrict someone from reading whatever they want because then someone can do it to me. Yeah it opens the door to a lot of crap being put out there that's nasty and offensive, but it also prevents the door from being closed on things that others consider nasty and offensive. EW makes quite a few rather derogatory and inflammatory comments about the clergy, the pope, witchcraft, and certain lifestyle choices. If you wanna start branding stuff and putting it in categories, it would probably fall into the "hate" category, and not be able to be printed anymore.

If I had an afro, I'd use it now.

If I had an afro, I'd use it now.

But Jared, isn't fence sitting apathy at it's worst? I think that if you know something is wrong, and you know that it will hurt someone and you do nothing about it, because you don't want anyone to tell YOU what to do is very shortsighted. Unfortunatley we have examples like Hitler and his kind to trot out to rationalize our apathatic decisions.... So do you really think that by not allowing witchcraft books to be in school libraries we are going to head into the fourth reich?

James 4:17 "Wherefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

If we see wrong, and know from a biblical standard that it is wrong (not our opinions) then if we do nothing to help others, we are in sin. Using Jesus as an example was noteworthy, but if He was with homosexuals, witches or whatever, do you not think that He rebuked them in some way? There is much that Jesus did that we have no idea of. John endas his episitle with these words: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written everyone, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written."

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Do we love one another enough to keep this trash out of the hands of those who are the most susceptible? Trotting Hitler out once more, he was able to get away with what he did because he targeted the youth. That's what's happening now, whether it's withchcraft, video games. porn or whatever....

I'll sign the petition.......

honestly if you have a freedom to practice whatever way you wish and read what you wish people will always be fighting. you cant actually bond all the way if we worship and believe different stuff. you can put up with and maybe even become friends but its always there in the background. the whole this country is built on all differnt faiths thing sounds great but it just dont work! so really at the heart of every debate like this is a problem that wont ever be solved to God comes. THE END.

Gavin wrote:

honestly if you have a freedom to practice whatever way you wish and read what you wish people will always be fighting. you cant actually bond all the way if we worship and believe different stuff. you can put up with and maybe even become friends but its always there in the background. the whole this country is built on all differnt faiths thing sounds great but it just dont work! so really at the heart of every debate like this is a problem that wont ever be solved to God comes. THE END.

Well, you are right Gavin, but hte question was, what was our opinions on the article about the woman that was wanting to ban certain books. So what is your's? Should the 1st admendmaent protect the right of people to petition to have offensive material banned from the schools?

I think you should be allowed to petition anything you like... that's our freedom. And the other side has the right to petition against it.

I agree with Jared & Gavin for the most part but have a slightly different view point. We're here on earth so granted the world around us will never be perfect EVER until Jesus returns. And we live with people that have totally different values than us... even just speaking in general terms of Christians vs non-Christians.

God does not force us to do anything. He doesn't force us to obey, love, or worship Him. When Christians have the view point of banning everything that is bad (bad or evil from their view point as a Christian) then essentially they want to limit everyone's choices only to those things that they consider okay and therefore you aren't giving others a choice to choose what is right. How are you choosing the good if that's the only option. That's basic character development in my opinion.

I think it's more important to express why you think it's wrong and then let others come to there own conclusions rather than banning the item all together. That won't change a persons heart. Rather it will create resentment and the person won't care to hear what you have to say in the future. Granted I'm speaking in grown-up situations here.

If someone was putting porn in my kids library I would totally freak... but then again I would be with Gideon while he was at the library and we would be looking at books together so using my ability to read I would make sure to not go near that section. AND if when he's older and I knew the library contained that stuff he would not be allowed in there without Gavin or I. It's as simple as taking the time to protect your children. We can't create a perfect safe environment for them and then just send them out there on their own, it's just not realistic. There are going to grow up one day and leave our homes and have to make adult decisions out there with all the terrible people and influences all around them just like we do.

Right, Jesse. But what about the other children who don't have parents that are as conscientious as we are. The world is bigger than our own backyard and we are our brothers keeper. While it is a very fine line about what we would find objectionable and what other's think is not, that is why I said what's bibliical, so as to not confuse it with a personnal opinion. I am well aware that a wiccan or a satanist would not find Harry Potters books alarming, but Christians should and I would still support the womans decision to petition to ban the books. Yes there could be a backlash against many books that I would not deem unreadable, but my point is, if it is wrong then we need to call it that way. If we just sit around and tell ourselves that it's all ok, because we don't want to offend anyone else, then we are wrong. But thankfully, this is Amercia and the public has a right to NOT sign any petitions or whatever. I still think that we have an obligation to GOD to stand up for what is right, even if the majority do not agree.

I understand using the bible as our basis for what is right and wrong but what I'm saying is that when it comes to public issues concering the first 4 commandments the government should not get involved.

This is the way it is. We have the right to worship whoever, however, and whenever we want b/c we live it a "free" counrty. That right is given equally to anyone Christian or not. That's just the way our country is... just b/c some thinks something is wrong doesn't mean they have the right to force that opinoin on someone else. If we wanted to live somewhere that was 'perfect' all the time and everyone lived the same way with the same morals then we could go start a community like the Amish have... but as Christians we know we're not supposed to exclude ourselves from the world.

It's not about worry if you're offending or being offended. I believe witchcraft is wrong, but I'm not marching up and down the street with a picket sign and screaming it out for all the world to hear... what good would that do? I wouldn't want Gideon to read those books but for right now I don't think I would sign a petition to have them taken out of libraries. It's fiction... isn't all fiction dangerous in one way or another?? Should we just burn 1/2 of the library down?? I guess I don't care about the topic b/c I don't feel it effects me directly. I just think the simple answer is to be in charge of the children that God gave to you and guard them from what your beliefs say is not acceptable. If you have the opportunity or the influence to help out others/share your beliefs as well then go for it.


Conerning the kids:
If there are parents that aren't involved in their kids lives and "bad" books get banned from the public or school libraries those same kids can just go buy the book or borrow it from a friend. We can't protect kids from reading a book by banning it... the same way we can't protect them from abuse by making child porn illegal. There are lots of kids out there being subjected to that all the time... is the law helping any?

Jesus knows the needs of the children that aren't receiving the best that they could.... you can't take the weight of 100 million kids on your shoulders.

By the way this isn't me bickering or trying to persuade... expressing what I think my opinion is is helping me to better develop it in my mind... and to find flaws while thinking from multiple angles.

By the way, there have been romance novels (aka porn) in libraries for as long as i can remember, why hasn't anyone tried banning those?

because girls like romance! that stuff doesnt scare hard core chistans as much as magic. really its like calling weed illegal and ordering another beer.

Gavin wrote:

because girls like romance! that stuff doesnt scare hard core chistans as much as magic. really its like calling weed illegal and ordering another beer.

Too true...

It is true that keeping certain books out of the libraries doesn't keep children from reading them. But I guess what I am trying to get at is the motive for why we do things or don't do them. Will my name on a petition keep a 14 year old from being lured into witchcraft? Maybe, maybe not. But the point is, I did something to try to keep it from happening, and that matters for eternity. God said that witchcraft is a sin, a very great sin. We can't just shrug and let someone else worry about it. We need to have the burden of 11 billion children resting on our shoulders, it's called brotherly love. You know loving one another as we love ourselves (or our own children). I bet if there were more people that were concerned about the children of the world, there would be fewer abused/neglected/hungry children.

Romance novels? Want me to get started on those? :soapbox

If there were no dissenting voices to get us to thinking then we all would just listen to the voices in our heads and formulate no new opinions.

Lynelle wrote:

It is true that keeping certain books out of the libraries doesn't keep children from reading them. But I guess what I am trying to get at is the motive for why we do things or don't do them.

My motive for "not" signing it, which I know is a poor excuse, is b/c I don't think it will make a difference... much like the way I feel about voting and politics.

I know we're admonished to be involved and the lack of involvment is as equal a guilt as being involved with the "wrong" side.

So am I guilty of indifference? It doesn't change what I believe... I just don't think anyone else cares that's all. I still live my life the same way and try (most days) to be an example (best I know how) to those people that I see each day.

they have had those kind of books in the for like a 100 years just because this one is better known to the public they are feeding off of it. if you feel a burden to sign petitions to ban magical kinda stuff for children your going to spend all day every day signing those things.

"I know we're admonished to be involved and the lack of involvment is as equal a guilt as being involved with the "wrong" side."

....I quit......

thanks that was fun... what's next?