What we need....

is a good controversy to get the boards lit up and fingers flying. So anyone got a good one? Rules are that it can't be mean, just something to make us think.....

Do you need to be baptised to go to Heaven?

Good enough to get peeps talking?

Gavin mentioned about Paul Raine saying last week that it's a shame that teacher's don't have the right to punish/spank kids in school anymore...

I don't think the problem is with that law... the problem is that parent's aren't raising their children correctly anymore... if there was respect and obedience at home then there wouldn't be a need for teacher's to "spank" kids at school....

I'm sure Gideon will still be spanked by his "teacher" but all I'm saying is if for some horrible reason that I had to put him in public school a teacher had better not lay a hand on him.....

I mean wouldn't you be horrified if you raised your child in such a way that he actually deserved a good spanking from an educator???

::shutters imaging herself to be better than those parents::

I would have to agree Jesse, that if someone else spanked my kid, i'd have to do some spanking of my own ...but thats how society is now. They don't even want the actual parents spanking their kids, much less strangers , but the reality of it is, that way back when, probably the generation befor ours, if you were a kid and you did something stupid, you would more than likely have a few slaps in the head by a few random people you don't even know before your "papa" finally got ahold of you. I gotta admit, it was a good deterant for doing something bad. Probably why we have such bad crime now .

Jesse wrote:

I mean wouldn't you be horrified if you raised your child in such a way that he actually deserved a good spanking from an educator???

::shutters imaging herself to be better than those parents::

Ok, as we all know, I don't have kids. But in response to your question - No, I do not think that a parent whose kid may actually deserve a spanking from an educator would be "horrified." "Outraged," perhaps, but to me that is a completely different emotion, which is based on anger.

I have run into many children in stores that simply need a good spanking, or at least a discussion and timeout related to unsatisfactory behavior. Instead, the parents are usually trying to placate the children with a toy, piece of candy, or whatever else.

Should educators be allowed to spank? I'm not sure that I agree that they should, but at the same time, if I had a child that was misbehaving to the point of needing a spanking - I believe that I would want some action to be taken.

But, hey, that's just my non-child having opinion.

No no, what I meant was... I would be horrified, as in embarrased, if I had raised my children so terribly that they would misbehave to the point of someone else in public wanting to spank them. Like all those parents on Super Nanny.

I know even well behaved little people have freak out times... but for it to be a regular everyday occurrence... ::shutters again::

Jesse wrote:

No no, what I meant was... I would be horrified, as in embarrased, if I had raised my children so terribly that they would misbehave to the point of someone else in public wanting to spank them. Like all those parents on Super Nanny.

Jess, true - but for some reason, I doubt the majority of parents that have this "issue" with their children are really in tune with their children or take the time to give them that much interest. For some reason, I keep thinking of all the "troubled youths" who end up in the system because their parents couldn't take or find the time to raise them properly. To me, these parents would seem to lack any of the emotions proper parents would have.

Jesse wrote:

I mean wouldn't you be horrified if you raised your child in such a way that he actually deserved a good spanking from an educator???

Here is a thought...
God gave us the ability of choice, we can choose right or wrong. As parents its their job to teach their children what is right and what is wrong, I think this is where the entire system is messed up. There is so much sin, that kids don't even think twice about doing wrong when they see their parents doing it all the time. Its a simple case of Monkey see Monkey do. Parents can do absolutely everything they believe is correct when raising a child, but at a certain point the child will have to choose right over wrong, and with so much wrong its not easy. But lucky for parents there is more then one way to raise their kids.

Oh Brian, you have so many words of wisdom for us all... do you have any good advise for pasta stains on pink cotton once it's been through the drier??

Jesse wrote:

Oh Brian, you have so many words of wisdom for us all... do you have any good advise for pasta stains on pink cotton once it's been through the drier??

Use Oxyclean - it works wonderfully. I have used it many times to remove pink stains after sending things through the dryer.

Just about everybody has lost sight of what a spanking is for. It is a deterent against bad behavior. Lee was spanked in school. lee was a good kid, but on that day he DID deserve the spanking. Did he do whatever it was that caused it again? Nope. It worked. The principle did not beat him, he whacked him with a board on the butt, through his pants. I think that the humilation of the whole thing hurt worse than the spanking.

But that was a long time ago.... and people have changed a great deal. Would I want someone else to discipline my kids? Probably not... only because they would do it like AJ said, with manipulation. On the other hand I would want someone to verbally correct my kids and if the behavior continues to let me know.

Bethie wrote:

Do you need to be baptised to go to Heaven?

Good enough to get peeps talking?

Jesus told us the answer in John 3 when He was talking to Nicodemus......

I was just thinking along the lines of there are very few people that discipline correctly (not in anger) and therefore it's more abuse than discipline. Teacher's have short fuses these days with all those bratty kids in there classes and I can imagine them popping a vein and then (if spanking were still aloud) spanking/beating my kid just b/c they were boiling over with anger.

That's why I say the whole thing has actually come down to it being the adults/parents faults anyway. Few adults actually discipline in a constructive way anymore (a way that means the offense has less than a 1% chance of happening again). If it was happening correctly at home then it would very rarely be needed at school.

THAT was my point

Okay who has the next controversial topic.... I imagine I spelled that wrong.

P.S. Beth about your baptism question. I've heard it asked and explained of/by Doug Batchelor several times... I think most of us have and already know the answer, no real controversy there.... unless of course you disagree with Doug??

Jesse wrote:

I was just thinking along the lines of there are very few people that discipline correctly

Is there a quote "Correct" way to discipline? Spankings work for some, cornors work for others, and cold showers work also. I think its the parents job to determine which way works the best. There is never just one way to correctly do something. I just found out yesterday that you can even flush the tolet incorrectly.

Here is a great quote I found:
Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. - Rita Mae Brown

Brian wrote:

Jesse wrote:

I was just thinking along the lines of there are very few people that discipline correctly

Is there a quote "Correct" way to discipline? Spankings work for some, cornors work for others, and cold showers work also. I think its the parents job to determine which way works the best. There is never just one way to correctly do something. I just found out yesterday that you can even flush the tolet incorrectly.

Here is a great quote I found:
Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. - Rita Mae Brown

I wasn't referring to the method of punishment... I was referring to the punisher's attitude

In Child Guidance I have read that we are to start with the "milder measures" first. If the behaviors are influenced with that, great. Spanking is used way too often and like Jess said, usually done in a wrong spirit. But spanking is BIBLICAL and GOD says that if we love our children we will use the "rod." I have been a mom for 28 years, I have seen a properly done spanking drive self right out of the heart of a child. I have also seen "time outs" and corner time only strengthen the self-will of a child. It is frustrating to not be able to use all the tools that God has given us whrn dealing with these foster kids. I can see the liberal point of view...ie: most of these kids have witnessed domestic violence so therefore in order to keep them from growing up violent, don't spank. But sheesh.... what some of these kids need is a good ole' fashioned whupping....

Jesse wrote:

I wasn't referring to the method of punishment... I was referring to the punisher's attitude

Ok, there here is a good question. Are mothod of punishment and punisher's attitude linked?

It is better to send the child to an area before punishment is given as more often than not if punishment is instantly given the attitude of the parent is not going to be surrendered to the Lord.

Good point Uncle Lee. Ellen White says that too. We try, as often as possible, to send Duncan to sit on his bed for a minute before we come in and talk to him and then punish him if he deserves that. That way he gets to think about what he did, and we get to cool off.