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 Don't Ask Don't Tell

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Jesse
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PostSubject: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:11 pm

So I need to hear some other folks opinions on this subject.... (please read the two articles posted in the News section) so I can get a broader understanding.

Here's what I'm thinking right now... true, your sexual orientation does not effect your ability (at least physically anyway) to serve in the armed forces.... but what Pace said... it's immoral.... and they don't accept adultery in the ranks (of course that is when they find out about it) so why should they allow homosexuals??

At the same time though is is discriminating?? And how do yo solve this problem if you aren't using the Bible as your guide for what is right and wrong??
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Amanda
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:57 pm

Just briefly, if you are going on moral character, you don't have to turn to the Bible for guidance. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't turn to the Bible, just that it is not the only guiding light that a lot of people base their lives on.

Morals and values are instilled in people from birth forward throughout life. If you are taught that something is wrong or immoral, that becomes your way of thinking as well - unless you choose to deviate from that teaching.

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Bethie
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:15 am

Just wanted to say that no matter what was said...
It was cool that someone actually stood up for what they believe for once.
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Brian
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:10 am

God will deal with the wicked... Why do you think we are having this stupid war... to weed out the wicked.

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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:11 am

So do you think homosexuals should be allowed in the military... and if so should they have to keep it a secret that they are or be allowed to tell everyone?
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:26 am

I can't think of a better place then the military for them. But in the army I don't think any of them actually want to make it public no matter if they can or not. I know alot of army guys, they would torture them if they ever found out, heck they do it now if they just suspect.
I'm just wonderying why your finding interest in this, trying to figure out what Hilary is going mess up next is way more interesting IMO.

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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:35 am

Jesse wrote:
So I need to hear some other folks opinions on this subject.... (please read the two articles posted in the News section) so I can get a broader understanding.

Here's what I'm thinking right now... true, your sexual orientation does not effect your ability (at least physically anyway) to serve in the armed forces.... but what Pace said... it's immoral.... and they don't accept adultery in the ranks (of course that is when they find out about it) so why should they allow homosexuals??

At the same time though is is discriminating?? And how do yo solve this problem if you aren't using the Bible as your guide for what is right and wrong??

Okay, I have a few minutes to post on this.......

First, I think that sexual orientation DOES affect one's ability, especially physical abilities. Now, here me out. Many men and women who take on the role of the opposite gender, often take on that gender's characteristics. Women become "butch" and men become "effiminate." I believe that this makes a difference physically become effiminate men are less likely to be the muscle-building, gun weilding type. "Butch" women on the other hand....well, that seems to vary from case to case.

Does such an affect on the physical abilities alter one's ability to participate in armed forces? I kind of agree that it might. I mean, seriously, could you see someone like Elton John fighting on the front lines in a war? Now, I do not mean to be demeaning, but I just can't picture that. If we look at the matter from the view of a "butch" woman.....well, I think there would be a very large driving force that would make the person feel they had to overcompensate or prove themselves. Doing this would in turn alter one's way of thinking, and possibly lead to aggression or other competitive feelings. I don't think this is necessarily the right attitude that we want our soldiers to have. But, I could be wrong.

Now, all that being said, I also believe that one would not join the armed forces (in most cases) unless they choose to do so. In that type of situation, all new members are put through boot camp and weeded out. Those that are too weak, too aggressive, too whatever are analyzed and the appropriate action decided upon.

Is homosexuality immoral? I have to say yes. But, it's a "hate the sin, not the sinner" type of thing for me.

Is it discrimination to make all people explain their sexual orientation before joining the armed forces, thereby rooting out the one's that are deemed immoral? Yes, it is. Just as you cannot ask an interviewee whether they have children, or if they are homosexual, or if they belong to a certain religious group, I believe the same should be true for the armed forces.

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Amanda
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:38 am

Jesse wrote:
So do you think homosexuals should be allowed in the military... and if so should they have to keep it a secret that they are or be allowed to tell everyone?

Yes, I think they should be allowed. As far as HAVING to keep their sexuality a secret, I don't really agree with that. But.......I would think they would want to for safety's sake. There are way too many macho idiots out there who would make life miserable for their comrades if they knew their sexual orientation.

I also think that there would be far fewer people in the military if the homosexuals were open about their sexual orientation......I know many who would not want to be associated with such a person.

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Lynelle
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:36 pm

Now I know that you'all are just waiting to hear my opinion..... I think that a person's sexuality should NOt be a reason to keep a person out of the military. A persons fitness to serve our country should soley be based on ability. The "Don't tell" policy is in place for their safety, so... if the sodomites (that's what God calls them) want to endanger themselves by coming out while on active duty, i guess it's their choice. I do agree with AJ, there will be many people that will choose not to serve... because they are homophobes. But I guess it hasn't hurt the Navy any..... Very Happy As far as the Armed Forces being concerned that it's a "moral' issue, I think that they are taking a stand that they in no way can maintain. Killing and sanctioning the killing of civilians would fall into the "moral" camp and they have failed miserably in that respect.

Sodomites can be teachers, boy scout leaders and in other positions of authority.... why not put them in a postion that just may put the fear of God in them and casue them to rethink their personal choices?

ROTF ROTF ROTF Elton john on the frontlines.... ROTF Or better yet on point... "oh fellasssss, they went this wayyyy" and with a flash of pink leopard print Priv. Elton disappears into the forest.........

ROTF
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:01 pm

Lynelle wrote:


ROTF ROTF ROTF Elton john on the frontlines.... ROTF Or better yet on point... "oh fellasssss, they went this wayyyy" and with a flash of pink leopard print Priv. Elton disappears into the forest.........

ROTF


Now THAT made me laugh! Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:32 pm

Don't forget that we should always Love the Sin and hate the sinner.

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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:59 pm

Brian wrote:
Don't forget that we should always Love the Sin and hate the sinner.

I do believe you have that backwards. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:07 pm

Humor as we know it is dead. First is was no more fag jokes, now we can't even say things backwards. Where will it end... where?

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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:12 pm

Brian wrote:
Humor as we know it is dead. First is was no more fag jokes, now we can't even say things backwards. Where will it end... where?

tongue only if you don't get the joke.........

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Bethie
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:29 pm

Lynelle wrote:
ROTF ROTF ROTF Elton john on the frontlines.... ROTF Or better yet on point... "oh fellasssss, they went this wayyyy" and with a flash of pink leopard print Priv. Elton disappears into the forest.........

ROTF

I totally said that in my head with the lisp and all ROTF ROTF ROTF ROTF ROTF
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Lynelle
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:25 am

Brian wrote:
Humor as we know it is dead. First is was no more fag jokes, now we can't even say things backwards. Where will it end... where?

Jokes about homosexuals? Oh Brian don't EVEN go there. All of our joke police will be on you like a ton of bricks............
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Gavin
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:45 am

Actually for someone who always makes lude and crude jokes it's okay for them to make homosexual jokes.... it when the people that are offened by poop jokes start making racist jokes that the joke police start profiling. PickOn

(That was Jesse by the way, Gavin who never gets online anymore got online last night and then didn't sign out of his name and I didn't check before I posted.)
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Lynelle
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:09 pm

Gavin wrote:
Actually for someone who always makes lude and crude jokes it's okay for them to make homosexual jokes.... it when the people that are offened by poop jokes start making racist jokes that the joke police start profiling. PickOn

(That was Jesse by the way, Gavin who never gets online anymore got online last night and then didn't sign out of his name and I didn't check before I posted.)

Oh gee.... kind of a double standard don't you think? And I really think that all of you joke police need to read the defination of "racist." hmmm now if it had been a joke about a POOPING or FARTING Indian woman you guys would have been ROTF and I wouldn't have had so much flack over it....... oh well........... to each his own....... I still think that jokes or really long posts about bodily functions are in poor taste and not even funny. And obviously there are some here who senitive about ethnic jokes. So... I applaud your sensitivity in matters like this...
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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:31 pm

I don't think anyone was sensitive to the joke... you think far too highly of us.
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:21 pm

As usual, I had a great, haughty reply and forgot to copy it so I could say "Hah!" and re-paste when the dumb system told me to log in again. (But oh, evil internet! I didn't forget the SECOND time this post!)

On the other hand, I was rambling, so now I can post in clear terms, short sweet and to the point.

Homosexual persons in the military. Why not? Patriotism comes from people of all shapes, sizes, genders, and, indeed, sexual preferences. We may have different goals, different ideas of what is right and wrong, but we share similarities, as well. This country was founded on the common desire for freedom. Would it be fair for us to say that people who had blond hair could not fight for their own? Granted, homosexuality carries a stronger moral decision than being blond would, but religious morality should not be the basis of "state" funded issues. Conversely speaking, what if I were a straight-laced male who, because of my moral position, chose not to serve my country because it had allowed a homosexual male to serve. Well, this will sound awful, but geez, what a biggot. Condemn the sin, not the sinner. Jesus dined with publicans, why can we not serve with homosexuals?

I had more to say but I've lost heart.
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Lynelle
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PostSubject: Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell   Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:30 pm

Lee and I had a conversation about this the other day. He served in the military, and while it WAS 25 years ago, I'm thinking that mebbe things haven't changed so much (hence the "don't ask, don't tell). He said that if anyone had openly admitted that they were homosexual, they would have been beaten to a pulp (homophobes abound). There prolly were lots of them, but they had the common sense to not say anything. I still don't have a prob. with them serving.... just don't tell me, do your job and then go home to the Mr., Mrs... whatever........
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