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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:47 pm

On the topic of debating... I think it works better if everyone gives their opinion on the subject... that way we can all see everyone's opinion.

I think where our system fails/problems begin is when everyone gives their opinion on everyone else's opinion. That is when personal attacks and resentment begins.

If your desire is to sway someone to your view then you will seek out the most delicate and effective way to do that. If you desire is to belittle and irritate others then by all means pick away at everything they say.
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Amanda
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:03 pm

Unless you are opening this up for discussion, questions, or opinions - without a resolute ending - I think this should be moved to the "questions, concerns, and thanks" section.

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Brian
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:03 pm

Your topic didn't apply to the topic you orginally posted in. Also it seemed like a great topic to debate. So what do ya'll think?

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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:05 pm

I think it's perfectly acceptable since it's the obvious style of debate used here that is causing problems.
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Bethie
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:08 pm

I think we should stop debating. It always ends up in hurt feelings or resentment.
Its hard to debate something when your not sitting face to face with someone because you can't see their emotions, body language or hear their inflections in their voice. So you end up taking things the wrong way on here and people start feeling attacked.
You also end up addressing one person on the forum where as when your gathered together you talk to more than one person so it doesn't feel like one person is being cornered.
We've been over this before...its all the same stuff as before.
The same few people post and you cannot get enough opinions on a subject to make it not seem like someone is against someone else.
Thats my opinion...pick it apart all you like.
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Brian
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:09 pm

so your saying we should all state our stances before we start debating?

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Amanda
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:14 pm

I'm assuming you are referring to either Brian, Beth, or me, since we are the only ones that have posted here.

First, I wasn't debating anything in my post. I do not feel resentment or hurt feelings from anyone when they disagree with me. Sometimes, my final opinion is changed.

I do not see the point in stopping debating - as we all know what we are getting into when we start - Brian has made sure of that in his stickied posts.

Why is it that everyone is so sensitive at times that we are all expected to walk on eggshells - in fear that we might say something that will hurt another's feelings, on a topic that we may believe or feel strongly towards?

Would I state the same opinions if I were in a room with any of you? Yes. But, maybe that's just me.

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Relyt
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:23 pm

I think that Beth is right when she says that since there are so few people that post, it seems as though some people get picked on. BUT....it is our resposibility to moniter how we react to things being said... especially if others don't agree with us. I see the debate threads as a very good opportunity for me to allow some things to die on my lips (or fingers!)

The problem that I see happening is that in stating our own opinions on a subject it comes across as "correcting" (it has been referred to as spanking). I think that we should all reread and pray about what we are about to send. If someone has a different opinion about insurance/mexicans/eating dairy products/being a SAHM..... then so be it. If I think that the person is wrong, then in my post I am free to express MY opinion and not directly address theirs. Methinks things would be happier around here. Asking questions about someones post is great... as long as in our asking we don't do it in a way that sounds belittling or condescending.

I think that the debate section should continue, my opinion is that all of us need a little more softening around the edges.......
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Bethie
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:25 pm

You are so wise Tyler lol!
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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:32 pm

While I think Tyler is maturing quite well I'm assuming that was Lynelle posting.

My suggestion is that is you want to "debate" a topic that you post your opinion/stance when you starte the thread.

For those that join the thread - before you reply to anyone else's opinions/stances you post your own based solely on the topic.

If you disagree with what someone says - question their reasoning or ask them to further explain their opionon/stance.

If you're wanting to learn that's what you'll do. Unfortunately Amanda and I both have to learn who to engage people so that they are not immediately pushed into a defensive mode.

I think also if we all humble ourselves and collect our thoughts before typing then we might be more effective in our debates.
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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:41 pm

Amanda wrote:

Why is it that everyone is so sensitive at times that we are all expected to walk on eggshells - in fear that we might say something that will hurt another's feelings, on a topic that we may believe or feel strongly towards?

Would I state the same opinions if I were in a room with any of you? Yes. But, maybe that's just me.

Quite honestly Amanda, you have a way about you (in person)... it's an attitude when you talk about something that says "I'm right and I really don't care what you have to say about it" and when someone replys to something you say you roll your eyes and huff a little.

This memory carries over onto the forum and that is probably why you find some of us so easily irked and offended.

Now don't get mad! You asked... I am simply trying to explain. Whether that's how you think or not that's the impression that you give. I'm sure I give terrible impressions (otherwise everyone wouldn't dislike me so often) that aren't really who I think I am. So I'm working on being the same person to others that I think I am in my mind.

If I didn't care about having a productive relationship with you I would haven't told you any of this. I just thought maybe expressing it might hopefully clear the air a little.
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Brian
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:48 pm

Thats funny... thats what we thought about you Jess. Maybe we have two exact same personalities, and thats our problem.

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Amanda
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:57 pm

I know I do (the eye rolling and huffing thing). And by the way, thanks for bringing this up in a public forum. I appreciate that. Smile

Seriously though, I'm not always right - just ask Brian. He gets great glee out of pointing it out. I don't think I'm always right. It's not that I don't care. If I find an idea absurd - yes, I will respond as you say with rolled eyes and a slight huff. Others I know do the same.

So, prove me wrong if it's something we disagree on. Show me the how/where/why/when/etc. that will make me change my mind. That is why I ask questions. That is why I "attack" (if you want to call it that) others. Because I don't understand the reasoning. And to me, understanding the reasoning is extremely important. Ask Brian, Mom, my boss, etc.......

I'm not trying to start fights or pick on anyone. When I am questioned on things, I research it, build my "case" and then present why I feel/believe in such a way. I guess I expect others to do the same. When others resort to claiming I am picking on them for doing such a thing, it comes across (to me) as an excuse that is used in order to avoid the situation.

I will make a concentrated effort to play nicer. I promise. Correct me when I get off track or too aggressive. I only ask that the "pity card" not be played so many times.

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Bethie
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:58 pm

Okay...when we did our personality tests, we all learned that there are MANY personalities in this family. When you deal with this many people you are gonna have clashes...its inevitable. All we can do is try to work through them.
I have often felt "attacked" by Amanda and Jesse and even Anna at one point or another...but i know they didn't mean to hurt me. I just took what they said wrong.
Now, when i read a post and come away feeling bad about it...i reread it and try to think if there is any other way they could have meant it. I often find another way and come away feeling better. This has helped a lot lately, for me anyway.
We keep running into the same problem...we can't tell how someone is saying something. If you mean sumthing to be funny, put an icon thats laughing or something...get what i mean? This should atleast help a little.

As far as debating...i think that has certainly been the wrong word to use. I think discuss is closer. But i think that if you are going to start a "discussion" you should state your opinion when you start it. Not just start one and let it go...that isn't working.
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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:21 pm

Brian wrote:
Thats funny... thats what we thought about you Jess. Maybe we have two exact same personalities, and thats our problem.

Amanda and I already knew we had that problem.

I don't mind if someone that I actually think cares about me wants to kindly enlighten me on ways I could be nicer to others or on how b**chy I am. So at the current time that exludes Jared and Brian. I don't think necessarily that you hate me Brian (you might but I hope not) but I do think you would rather get a rise out of me than help me better myself. PickOn
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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:35 pm

Amanda wrote:
So, prove me wrong if it's something we disagree on. Show me the how/where/why/when/etc. that will make me change my mind. That is why I ask questions.

I think that's why it's adventageous to have some discussions/debates online b/c it gives us the opportunity to say what we want without being interrupted or distracted by others comments or body language. Personally it gives me time to better gather my thoughts and have a little self inflection before I respond. (That is when I take the time to gather my thoughts and have self inflection).


Amanda wrote:
... it comes across (to me) as an excuse that is used in order to avoid the situation.

What happens, for me personally, is when I sence attitude I don't even want to respond anymore. It only leads to pointless bickering. So I don't have a problem not dicussing a topic anymore. If someone already has assumed opinions about me there's nothing I can do on here to change it for the better. All I can do it stop being a part of the conversation and hope to present myself as a better person the next time they're around.
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Amanda
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:36 pm

Jesse wrote:
Brian wrote:
Thats funny... thats what we thought about you Jess. Maybe we have two exact same personalities, and thats our problem.

Amanda and I already knew we had that problem.

I don't mind if someone that I actually think cares about me wants to kindly enlighten me on ways I could be nicer to others or on how b**chy I am. So at the current time that exludes Jared and Brian. I don't think necessarily that you hate me Brian (you might but I hope not) but I do think you would rather get a rise out of me than help me better myself. PickOn

Um, not to be mean...but Brian prefers to get a rise out of anyone. It gives him great entertainment. Twisted, I know. Smile

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Brian
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:40 pm

scratch I'm truly sorry you think that way. Tonight ask Gav who told him that she should date you cause they thought you would make a great couple. If doesn't remember (which he will) remind him it was at our apartment pool in richmond.

Granted I don't agree with 99% of anything you say, but I blame that on the puss and blood we/I consume so much of. But just cause I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I don't love and care about you. Yes I love to get a rise out of you, but I know you like to get one out of me to. By the way Digital cameras are way better! So since I'm on the list, I'll stop. Anyone know if Jig has tried to Top Tyler yet, I'm sure Jig can shoot himself atleast twice.

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Jesse
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:04 pm

Brian wrote:
By the way Digital cameras are way better!

Have you been ignoring my other posts since I'm such a crap??

I have a digital camera now too!

However I will still use a regular camera for when I want pictures to go in an album... old habits are hard to break.
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Brian
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:11 pm

Jesse wrote:
Have you been ignoring my other posts since I'm such a crap??

I would hope you know be better then that.... I'm not going to ignore you just cause of something you say.. if anything its going to make me say something. You have to remember, I do all my posting from work, so I don't always get a chance to read everything, hence the reason for a mod... aka a helper. If I don't say something, then I just don't have anything to say.

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Brian
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:12 pm

I moved the film topic to the general section... Topic

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Ginnifer
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:22 pm

Debating debating. Well, I would just like to say that if you don't like debating, don't open the page!!!!!

I love debating, but I don't have the time to get on hear and read half of the things being debated.

I like seeing Brian pick on someone other than me, though, so I pop in here occasionally.
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Jig
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PostSubject: Re: Debating Debating   Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:14 pm

Hrm. There are things better left unsaid, I know. Unfortunately I've always had a humdinger of a time figuring out which of the things I want to say needs to remain unsaid.


Yes, I said humdinger. So there.
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